RITCHIE...stop...all of this just to get me to come back and say something? It's so sweet, but come on...just send me a PM or something...this is a looong way to go.
AA rules, arguing is fun and peace out!
tell me what you know about The Hold Steady. You to Richie.
There are reasons this poster looks like it does.
We just did three posters for them. They are designery. Each one speaks to a different part of their music. You won't like them but fans flipped out when they saw them.
No one is saying anything about there being ONE style for all posters, far from it. I didn't see anyone say that, even Richie.
What people are talking about is the thought process behind making a poster, regardless of the style of the poster. (which is different than an artist haveing 'style').
The difference between being truly creative and being lazy and doing something that is just nice.
hey billy perkins - your posters are all great, obviously you know how to make a poster compelling AND have a style that attracts fans of your art, so you understand the process. It is a process.
(nothing against AA, just answering Billy from a pervious comment here)
By the way, saying this poster is nice or not has nothing to do with what Richie is asking.
Stowe it goodtimes. Your definition of what a "rock" poster should be doesn't apply to every single poster made. Everyone gets that you don't like designer style. You are boring the jesus out of everyone on this topic and not even making a good argument for your own views. Come up with a more compelling pot to stir dipshit.
My ex-gf used to get upset if I'd be selling posters and someone (usually not realzing that I'm the artist) would say that they thought it was stupid or gay or bad design or whatever. She'd be like "doesn't that piss you off?" and I'd go, "no. I only need 100 people to like this poster and then it's gone forever."
it's good, nothing great. it's simple and gets the point across, though the text is kinda small. it's good to have these "designy" type posters to offset the ones of craptastic sketches of strange creatures puking out of their eyeballs and shit. not everything needs to be totally over the top. different strokes for different folks.
"Man, I hope there is a new poster update soon. This is thread is BORING."
It's not going to help any as we have another poster in that batch that is all designer-y and static and boring and the type is small. We designed it and printed it last night to piss off Richie.
"Man, I hope there is a new poster update soon. This is thread is BORING."
Yeah, I can't wait til my flat colored, non-distressed, pinup/flame/skull/hotrod-less, event-focused submissions get up here so I can see how badly they get torn apart. >:)
Yeah, Dave, I hade posters done for shows after they happened.
SO that is merch, which is also doing a job, attracting buyers.
or just to commemorate an event, if it is not used as merch.
Either way, a poster made after a show still has to be appealing to me and our fans, or it has no need to exist.
Great use of neg space.
Fresh color choices & nice color balance.
Creative integration of necessary typography.
Solid composition utilizing an angled rectangular shape motif.
Interesting combination of line art vs photography.
Unconventional registration in select areas.
That's the difference between an artist and a hack:
doing a job and doing it with style.
What does an architect do?
A portrait painter?
An art print you can do whatever you like, but a gig poster gives you some parameters to work in.
IF someone has an aftermarket sales thing that is successful it is for two reasons:
1 - the artist has a style that is appealing out of context of the show event.
2 - the artist understands marketing and sales, and is good at business.
How to do #1 there and also do the job a gig poster is supposed to do
IS what brains and talent are for.
You find your way in that space.
Speaking for myself, I try to design posters to be art, not just advertisements for a show. Right or wrong, my poster's job is to:
1) Promote the show
2) Get me some exposure
If #2 was not a part of it, I'd be working for free & I doubt I'd be as enthusiastic about doing it.
Well, you are selling an artifact, to:
- fans of the band
- people who feel like getting one
- fans of the artist.
If you made it for the purpose of appealing to other artists, then it is full of shit, which is what Richie is saying.
No great "old days" poster out there was made with the after market in mind.
They were done to make it exciting to people to come to the show.
Whether you make money selling artifacts has nothing to do with if this poster helped pull at the door, which was why anyone would have commissioned it in the first place. It's not supposed to be wall paper decoration.
We did a black and white flier that probably did the most of the promotion work but the club does indeed get a healthy stack of these posters. Since we do have a relationship with the band and know that we'll be able to sell them at the shows and afterward I guess in some ways it could be seen as a "merch" poster...but again, it was/is being used for promotion as well.
Ritchie's right, pretty much.
The job of a poster is to sell something. Whether you like it or not. Not to be designed for other designers to like.
AND not to be designed so that it will sell later. It's an advertisement.
It is to attract you to come to the show.
No different than Toulose-le-Trec or Mucha or whoever had to do 105 years ago.
If this attracts the kind of people who would like this band, then it was sucessful as an adverisement for the show.
If it doesn't, regardless if the band likes it, the artist likes it, people at gigposters likes it, who cares. The club is being done a disservice is it does not attract people to see this band (so that they will buy liquor or beer).
Other way there is no earthly purpose for a gig poster to exist.
Gig posters aren't "ART", they are art.
No, no. Richie you are confused. We got a reference to a vagina on our Interpol poster. Are you angry because we don't put enough vaginas on our posters? Because we can definitely do that. I've got tons of ideas on how to make nice vagina posters.
You guys are a plague. Tan, bue, orange, finger, old photo, chaotic layout that really isn't...
You're a plague. I didn't ask if you're client liked it. I asked if this is good...a while back...nicely.
What makes this perfect? What am I missing?
A bunch of other fucktards decided to make it about me.
It looks like a prom picture of a couple who are going steady which is term from years ago to mean a boy and a girl who date only each other for a long time which could be the basis for the concept of the poster.
hmm. this poster is pretty cool. there's something a little off about it but that's a good thing, gives it a certain unsettled energy. when a composition is perfectly stable or symmetrical, it's kind of dead. the imagery to me suggests a pun on "hold steady", like the finger is kind of pressing a shutter and the photo suggests holding still, posing, for a snapshot.
Truthfully, I just printed a poster this weekend with larger venue, date, time info than I've ever done before. Just because I thought it would be *fun* to make a poster that looked more like a "gig-poster".
To balance that one out, I'm going to do the next one with in braile.
I think it's funny that number of comments and attention a poster gets on gigposters.com is often used to measure the apparent "success" or "failure" of a poster.
Do I need to remeind you of the chicken?
Oh hi. Oh my. Yeah, I mean I guess our work isn't for everyone. How can it be? The thing is this is the third poster the band has commissioned us to do. So, I guess they like what we do. Honestly, I'm sure this poster COULD be better. They're a band I like so much that I just don't think I can do them justice.
Designing for other designers? No.
ANYWAY. Thanks for all the comments. These shows are this week and they're gonna be great.
"(adjective) describes a witty mannerism, personality, or behavior that is a combination of sarcasm and cynicism. Usually accepted as a complimentary term. Snark is sometimes mistaken for a snotty or arrogant attitude.
His snarky remarks had half the room on the floor laughing and the other half ready to walk out."
I had to look up snarky to make sure it was a real word. We only use about 35 words in NE.
Richie, you have once again successfully stirred the pot to boil up a bumper crop of replies for you to formulate snarky replies to. Thank you, today you are the Kazakh Government to our Borat movie.
If you don't like our posters, that's great. We're not making them to please you. We make them for the band, the fan and ourselves (not necessarily in that order.) If people like them as much as we do that is a great feeling. And if people don't like them, that's too bad because we can only make what we think is good. If we could make a poster that made everyone happy what a boring damn poster studio that would be.
Keep on hatin'!
The issue as I see it is that designers in any sort of creative field like AA that don't talk down to their viewers but rather respect them and their ability to interpret the communication will inherently create works that average joe-schmos like Goodtimes just won't get. And designers like Goodtimes believe that unless you spell everything out for a viewer, aka having no trust or respect for the viewer to understand a slightly compicated message, will undoubtably judge pieces like this as missing their audience.
i think AA's designs are always really solid, and probably do appeal to fans of the hold steady. to me the hold steady sound like a really solid band with william shatner fronting them. so it's about half my cup of tea. while i think AA are really good designers, their work tends to just leave me cold. but then there's someone like ron liberti, who is the essense of a designer, and his stuff feels designer and totally rock and roll at the same time. and never leaves me cold. sometimes the overly (and clearly) calculated balance of some designer peices just kills the fun of a design for me. i'm not sure where i'm going with this. how about this: ron liberti rules.
"I asked why this is good. No one's answered that. I've heard why I'm not. I didn't ask that."
Many people answered it, you just didnt like the answers, and devalidated them by saying they are designers so it doesnt count....
You can say what ever you want about our Melvins poster when it comes up, I assume you've already seen it, at the show i'm guessing. I'm fully expecting folks not to like it. We've done a melvins posters before, as well as a High on Fire poster which you can comment on right now. No need to wait.
It's a question that you don't want to hear the answer to. Whatever anyone says you'll just dismiss as designery bullshit.
Why is this poster good? Because I like it.
Why is this poster bad? Because Richie doesn't like it.
You didnt start it, but you folded it into your argument. As i said before its funny that you questions AA's motives for making posters (and allude to it being soley for $$$) and then validate your position by saying you're right because you (presume that you) make more money. What sense that makes i cant tell
"I make more money hourly in this industry than 90% of you, for more than my technical skills. I also work as a 'designer'. If it was about money I'd always be right. I make more than the AA guys. I guarantee it. Do you want to see my tax return?"
Its funny, you ride AA on this idea that they're only making posters to make money/sell to other designers (which i think is totally off base, see MaxFlo's comments)... And then you turn the argument into the idea that your points are valid only because you make money (and from what you've said in the past, make money for the sake of making money, and not to do good design work...).
I am not a graphic artist but I have been buying posters for the past 15 years.
When I see a poster for the first time I know immediatly if I love it or not...
Can be a visual choc, can be an emotion, can be the colours, an idea... many things...
I don't know if I recognize good design or not but when I like it... I don't need to think too much about it.
It's all opinion. One of my posters that got tons of criticism from other artists for "missing the mark" or "lacking the vibe of the band" turned out to be my best selling item at the last flatstock. So while the artists thought I failed to speak to the audience properly, the audience disagreed pretty wholehartedly with their pocketbooks. I've also had pieces where half the band loved it and the other half didn't. You can't please everyone, and artistic tastes are very personal. I hope AA doesn't care which poster artists like their stuff and which don't. I know there are tons of people here who aren't into my stuff and I don't care, because I like what I do and the music fans do too.
"The legend is that when ENM wants to pee 15 feet he only has to actually pee 5 feet."
Shhh...keep that on the low. I'm "modest".
"I figured that I'd pull out the canadian vocabulary on that one.."
On a related note, I saw my first Sacagawea coin this year. The American Loonie!
Gettin' back to the poster, I'm glad this debate came up. The name-calling and cursing isn't tolerated at Be A Design Group's site, so it's cool to come here and enjoy some health GP discourse.
I think the fact that the Melvins used AA's work for a 7" cover says something about thier ability to make "rock posters". That HAS to count for something.
All I know is that I want to collab with AA on something. I think something very cool could come of it for sure. I'd LOVE to see what they would do with one of illos or hand drawn text.
i can't tell you why a "non designer" would like an AA poster, because i'm a designer.
but, i can assure you that AA has a strong visual connection with the music, fans and "scene" for lack of a better word, that they deal with.
their fans respond to their posters the same way a dirthead kid in the early 90s would have responded to Dio's "Holy Diver" album cover. they connect with it, they love it, it represents them and their peers.
while i don't really connect with all of the music AA does work for, i like almost everything they do.
So Richie, what you're saying is that the intended audience of this piece, fans of The Hold Steady, will not understand it. This is, as the intellectuals say, an "inappropriate solution". AA designed this piece to impress the judges at Graphis more than rock and rollers. Rock and rollers would have preferred something more traditional. Like maybe a nekkid lady draped over a hot rod or some other traditional theme.
"I've got a feelin' (an inkling, if you will...) that I can piss 15 feet. I'll have to come down to an Austin FS and compete."
Road trip Allan? haha.. and yah I figured that I'd pull out the canadian vocabulary on that one..
Thanks, Mike. I was due to be right about something. I'm gonna treat myself to a donut. Or two. :)
Evan...only a handfull of folks here are gonna know what a toonie is. Say a "commemorative coin" or something.
I've got a feelin' (an inkling, if you will...) that I can piss 15 feet. I'll have to come down to an Austin FS and compete.
From the photos I've seen of Austin Flatstocks, the atmosphere seems just right for such a contest. :)
I honestly think that after 4 years here, that's my first 'fuck you' from Richie. OK. Maybe the 2nd.
You're like the Essa Tikkanen of gig posters, Richie. You're talented, but your real role in the whole picture of things is to just stir shit up. Also, 85% of what you say just doesn't make any sense. That said, you will surely make it into the hall of fame some day.
I like hearing what my peers think, but I can't let what they MIGHT say affect the end result of the design.**
'Cuz that's like, dumb. It ain't for them.
**Their collective voices are in the back of my head, but I do my best to ignore 'em. I try anyway.
I like a lot of the AA stuff. Not this one so much. The hand and the photo don't seem to belong on the same poster for some reason.
And to argue just a little with you Richie... every one of us designs these things with the other designers here in mind at least a little. I mean, being accepted and respected by ones peers has some merit.
Now if all you are doing is designing for other designers... that is lame. Not presuming AA are doing that at all, just saying.
I don't make posters to sell them.
More people shop at Walmart than buy AA posters. Walmart makes more money than AA so they must be better.
I ask valid questions that I think a great deal of you should consider for yourselves even if you don't answer me. I don't really care what your answer is. I think it's important that you think about it though. I'm doing you a service that your design school teachers forgot to bring up. I went. I know. I've talked to other people about it and when I mention it they recall the same experience.
Designers have to stop designing for other designers. You've been taught to and yo need to unlearn it. I'm fucking right and you know it. The only reason you wanna disagree with me is because it's me.
I make more money hourly in this industry than 90% of you, for more than my technical skills. I also work as a 'designer'. If it was about money I'd always be right. I make more than the AA guys. I guarantee it. Do you want to see my tax return?
On that note. Fuck you CCCP.
" I'm that simple. I need ROCK CONCERT spelled out on everything. Otherwise I'd just be baffled. I like t-shirts to say T-SHIRT otherwise I don't know what I'm wearing."
i actually think if richie did a poster for this type of band he could pretty easily..
I know type wasn't the main product. I said selling "objects" in a store is harder than selling type online. They tried to leverage their sucess with type into chairs, pillows, etc. Which might have worked, had they not tried to operate the retail store themselves. The world is already full of neo-modern furniture and crap stores that could have sold stuff for them. But in the end, their objects really aren't that cool either.
Richie, you have a point, they are very "designy", but I think there are people who didn't go to design school who like that kind of stuff. AA can't be selling all their posters other designers. But you're right, they are by no means low-brow.
Richie, there is nothing that I can say that hasn't been said around gigposters before. It's just a difference in taste and aesthetic. I really dig your High on Fire poster for different reasons in which I like AA's work. I think there can be different solutions to one answer.
danstiles 2006-10-21 17:09:35
"often asymmetrical layouts, good typography, and visual balance to often create really cool posters. Maybe it takes design school to recognize these things, maybe not. They are generally lacking in skulls, flames, stretched and curved computer type, centered layouts, lack of negative space, and naked ladies, which seem to be the hallmark of much poster design."
Dan, in not so many words that's what I was saying about understanding the page. They understand how to make something not awkward. To each his own.
AA takes old stuff and reconfigures it into new stuff, like Chantry. They combine wit, meaning, often asymmetrical layouts, good typography, and visual balance to often create really cool posters. Maybe it takes design school to recognize these things, maybe not. They are generally lacking in skulls, flames, stretched and curved computer type, centered layouts, lack of negative space, and naked ladies, which seem to be the hallmark of much poster design.
Some people dig the designy approach, others like the skulls and centering. Its a matter of taste I suppose.
i agree allan, this could probably be just as strong without the hand.. but i dig this either way.. and yes, it has the perfect feel for their new album.
it is however missing "ROCK CONCERT!!!" at the top or bottom, but you know... live and learn..
Would someone who's not into graphic design dig this? Maybe not. It might be too unorthodox for the average person; someone that likes their messages straight.
Personally, I like it. The type arrangement is cool. I don't think the hand was necessary, but it's there. The prom picture fits in with the vibe of the album, in my opinion. Boys n' girls fallin' in love...eventually fallin' out of love.
Admittedly, the "understanding the page" thing sounds kinda hokey (sorry, Mike). If you're talking about how they arrange elements in a design, I think I understand.
Understanding the page? You're shitting me. AA are great because they understand the page?
What does that mean in laymans terms?
Is there even a laymans term for that or am I correct in my assumption that you're just making shit up.
If you were not a student of graphic design would this still appeal to you?
I like AA because they understand how to balance space, make me look at ordinary images in new ways, have a good hold on color theroy and have solid type skills. Their design is classic and timeless much like Beall. I like many other designers on this sight for exact same reason.
Everybody makes choices.
I've been trying for years to understand what you people are seeing in AA's work and I don't get it.
Once in a while I catch a glimpse of something that I think is smart or cool, but more than usual...not.
What is the fucking apppeal? For serious.