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DESIGNER:
Jeff Kleinsmith  
VENUE:
OK Hotel
Early Crap
1991
 
SUBMITTED BY:
Jeff Kleinsmith
2002-05-15 16:15:15
 
BANDS:



 Poster - OK Hotel, Early Crap - Jeff Kleinsmith



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ImJustRickGSend ImJustRickG a message :   There's a lot of history in some of these old posts. Wow.   2007-10-24 21:32:48
ToothSend Tooth a message :   jeff should post the "new" version of this.   2005-08-14 15:41:49
Jeff KleinsmithSend Jeff Kleinsmith a message :   I haven't finished it yet. It's in mid-June. I'm home, sick, and I am trying to finish it up. I'm excited.   2005-05-09 10:41:43
dennyschmickleSend dennyschmickle a message :   That's awesome dude. How'd that PowerPoint lecture work out for you? :D   2005-05-09 10:39:43
John ASend John A a message :   Jeffy's all grows up. :mrgreen:   2005-05-09 10:38:30
Jeff KleinsmithSend Jeff Kleinsmith a message :   After reading those 83 comments, three years later, I find most of it to be a big load of horseshit.
I'm happy. And I'm happy doing what I do. Fuck it. It's weird how differently I feel about all of this three years later.
  2005-05-09 10:37:15
rockologistSend rockologist a message :   back when we cared and talked about stuff.   2005-05-09 08:22:13
dennyschmickleSend dennyschmickle a message :   So many words.   2005-05-09 08:17:23
JohnnyThiefSend JohnnyThief a message :   Jeff who?   2005-05-09 07:37:20
John ASend John A a message :   Poison Idea bring the rock.   2005-05-09 07:13:03
phoondaddySend phoondaddy a message :   Good thread, my eyes hurt real bad now.   2005-05-09 06:52:24
PlantweedSend Plantweed a message :   Wow, whatta thread...   2005-05-09 06:34:57
JermaineSend Jermaine a message :   Jeff K.-KING of the NW...   2002-07-27 18:24:05
kevin jonesSend kevin jones a message :   wow, take one night to get a break from starring at a computer screen, and i miss all of the worthwhile stuff!
first, thank you everyone for the inspiring words. i truly appreciate all of it. i often go through spells of self-doubt where creative skills were concerned, but since ive been in minneapolis, there has just been so many other things going on in my life, so much to deal with, that ive really let it get to me. its been a struggle, but i AM working on ways to get it together.
actually, i took a pretty big step yesterday, ive offered my services to the babylon collective here in mpls (small diy group that does hardcore shows here) for doing posters (you should be seeing the first one here soon). also, song of zarathustra has asked me to do some promo work for them, and a poster for their upcoming show with pretty girls make graves and the blood brothers.
i think part of my problem is when i dont have any work to do, i tend to just slack and then feel sorry for myself because im not getting any work. but the real problem is that i dont go LOOKING for it as much as i should. im trying to work it out.
anyway, thanks for all of the support!
  2002-05-17 08:53:39
SashSend Sash a message :   To clarify, I refer particularly to his recent work.   2002-05-16 19:10:17
SashSend Sash a message :   Jeez, this has been an exceptional thread. I personally see a lot of "edge" in Jeff's work. Subversive even... (in a good way)   2002-05-16 18:32:07
kozikSend kozik a message :   if you could bottle the scent of Pig Champion.....   2002-05-16 18:29:22
John ASend John A a message :   2 Things to say on this poster/thread: 1.Happy Birthday Jeff 2.Poison Idea are fat   2002-05-16 18:21:29
Jeff KleinsmithSend Jeff Kleinsmith a message :   Christ, I took a long birthday lunch and suddenly the shit hit the fan. Cool. This kinda fractured into a few different directions so I'll just address what I think Art's trying to say. I think he's right. And I think Frank's right. I think 5Rock's right and Hank is definitely right (hee hee) But it's a confusing intersection. I've known something changed inside of me awhile ago. Exactly what Art's saying happened, happened. I lost something along the way. The thing is, I also gained something like Frank and 5Rock are saying. It's this constant battle to bring all of the losses and gains together in some stable, peacefully co-existing way with the end result being that you're creating the best work possible. I don't think it's so easy to do. Very few can do it. That's the problem and the challenge. It's what keeps me it the game. If this was easy, I'd be gone. So, I know what Art's trying to do. I'm not so cocky that I think I know what the hell I'm doing all the time. I don't. When I do think that, I'll be in big trouble. That's what I dig about him bringing this up. It makes me think about this shit. (While my poster happens to be sitting next to these comments boxes, it's not about MY poster - it's about all of us. That's why I'm talking about this stuff publicly.) I appreciate what Art's saying and doing. I don't take any of this personally. I have the choice to decide what's right for me. He makes me think and I am thankful. And godammit, more often than not he's fuckin' right (whether he likes me or not).
Jeff
I don't want this to sound like some fuckin acceptance speech, but I sure do appreciate all of the kind things some of you said about my work. I also welcome any unkind things anyone has to say, as long as it's about the work.
  2002-05-16 17:45:08
5RockSend 5Rock a message :   Huh?
You're the one dropping knowledge like "erudition".
  2002-05-16 16:48:28
kozikSend kozik a message :   whatever-I suppose I can 'gussy up' my commentary and take extraordinary pains to elevate my thoughts to some socially acceptable level for you more advanced types, but that would remove what I consider a normal conversational tone for my vile and revolting self. You want proper, inhuman erudition get yer skanky as over to acedemicwankage.com. That goes for myself paying any attention to my typing skills to boot.
OI!
  2002-05-16 16:41:53
5RockSend 5Rock a message :   When I was 12 to perhaps 15, I would swear all the time... at least 3 times in every sentence. As I got older, it got old... and I even remember listening to myself talk and being amazed and sort of embarrassed at how I sounded... so I stopped. I tried to learn how to express myself without all of the immature shock value, and I think I have. Sometimes though, I'll get around old friends and start to go off like a longshoreman... it's fun. Anyway, there's an analogy in there somewhere. I do try to keep copies of all of my work so that one day, I too can look back at a wide, evolving body of work and see how (hopefully) things have come full-circle time and again.
PS - Jeff's fuckin' work fuckin' rocks.
  2002-05-16 16:30:26
MaximumFluorideSend MaximumFluoride a message :   Oh yeah, I love this flyer. This kind of old school punk stuff amazes me.
  2002-05-16 16:19:20
MaximumFluorideSend MaximumFluoride a message :   Amen Frank! I decided about 3 years ago to make a real effort to make something happen with my art. It has meant 12 to 20 hour days and huge sacrifices from my family. I go to work for 8 to 10 hours a day and come home and do another 5 to 10 hours a night. Sleep is a luxury I barely afford myself. But hey man, I don't want to find myself 60 years old and miserable because I never gave it a shot. I still have a loooong way to go, but If I never get where I want to be it won't be because I didn't bust me ass trying.
Nobody is going to hand an art career to you. You gotta go get yourself. (that wasn't directed at you Kraftie, just a general statemnet)
  2002-05-16 16:18:25
kozikSend kozik a message :   Hey Kraftie-don't give up. I worked a series of horrible blue collar jobs for 10 long years...military, construction work, drove a delivery truck,plastics factory...and did my shit at night, weekends during lunch...and still went to like a million punk rock shows.It wasn't easy, but I kept at it until I got my first lucky break doing 'real' art for 6 bucks an hour at the T-shirt slave camp. All those jobs had 1 purpose to feed and clothe me so I could do my thing on the side...so it can be done, you just have really try. I mean, I'm a fucking high scholl drop-out and I managed. YOU CAN DO IT! never never give up. ALL my friends used to laugh at me...you know...no way your going to turn your shit into any thing....now, most of them had fancy college degrees..they are sucking shit and I'm going strong.
It's entirely in your hands!
  2002-05-16 15:41:35
El Negro Magnifico!Send El Negro Magnifico! a message :   This has been one hell of a comment thread. For the past month or so, I've been practically living on the web, living vicariously through other artists. I flunked the second term of the graphic design program I was in, so I've been twiddling my thumbs with my sketchbook gathering dust. I've been lamenting the fact that I don't have a scanner so I can participate in an online drawing forum(Shane Glines' "Drawing Board", where our man scrojo posts often), I just looked over my drawing table to see a quote from Elliot Earls(Punk Planet 46): "...the desperate need for that next piece of equipment is the excuse machine kicking in to justify inactivity and failure." I've been procrastinating for WAY TOO LONG. Gonna grab the sketchbook. Peace.   2002-05-16 15:26:34
stinkbaitSend stinkbait a message :   Make yourself do it Kraftie. I burn close to 10 - 12 hours a day working at Apple and I go straight home to the studio and work another 8 almost every night. Either working on design or printing. Up until a year and a half ago I hadn't touched design for five years. Pushing myself like this is the best thing I've done since getting out of art school. I'm worn out everyday and revitalized every night. There's nothing like being in a studio getting ink all over yourself. Your Piebald poster shows great promise get out there and drive it. I'll be disappointed if you don't get more up here.
This certainly was a good discussion. I always think Art comes on too strong until he explains further and this medium is lousy for interpretation so seeing this evolve was good. Especially since Jeff is one of my favorite people and has given me plenty of insight on design. I like both Jeff's but I look forward to seeing the next thing just as much as I admire the past work.
Let's see what new stuff Kozik is talking about. Can't wait.
  2002-05-16 15:03:29
kevin jonesSend kevin jones a message :   i think a lot of it is just laziness on my part, some of it is outside pressures to get something done, some of it is being stuck in this crappy job for 9 hours a day, some of it is life at home.
i need to find a way to seperate everything else and find some time to create - and to motivate myself to create.
  2002-05-16 13:58:32
kevin jonesSend kevin jones a message :   i hear ya, and what i meant was that the ideas are there, but execution has become such a hurdle for me lately, that im finding it hard produce.
i think i really just need more free time to think AND create.
  2002-05-16 13:55:02
Nolen StralsSend Nolen Strals a message :   kraftie...."seeing" is so much more key to good design than execution. With friends still in art school, I'm on campus quite a bit and I see kids all the time who can handle paints like god and can make immaculate print outs and mock ups of their design work, but their vision, their natural (or even developed) sense of design/balance/harmony/chaos whatever is totally off...it's dead...there's nothing there.
A bad hand controlled by a great eye beats a great hand controlled by a bad eye any day. Beauty can show through weak exectuion, but beautiful execution is just 'pretty' if there's no vision behind it.
what's that thing all the designers say about polishing turds?
  2002-05-16 13:51:35
kevin jonesSend kevin jones a message :   i dont know if "seeing" is as much of a problem as execution is.   2002-05-16 13:34:04
rockologistSend rockologist a message :   "It takes a knowledge of what cut and paste can do to make this...it's not totally random and loose...though there is a lot of happenstance in it, it's not totally so. Look at the other gits one with the bandaged head."(-nolen) but if you look at all these kleinsmith posters (i'm just using them as an example), it seems that the 'knowledge' of what you can do with cut 'n' paste is learned as it happens. the things that i see that are exciting in all of these are things that i would speculate happened on the spot, and without much previous thought or deep understanding. ok-the moody eyes are a recurring theme, so that's obviously an understood idea, but the elements of each one that truly set them apart feel like spur of the moment ideas. and that seems to me as being a direct result of letting go of what looks 'good', and following what feels right. i don't know how clear i'm being, or pretensious. :roll: oh well.   2002-05-16 13:32:43
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   kraftie -
yeah, i knew it was ajoke, but i thought it was funny in other ways than you may have intended.
hank -
someone said about picasso "he's just an eye, but what a magnificant eye!" that's sorta jeff's strong secret. bastard was born with one hell of an eye.
and kraftie -
best advice would be to learn how to "see" - go develope an eye for yourself.
art
ps i'm outta here.
  2002-05-16 13:29:57
kevin jonesSend kevin jones a message :   Mr. Chantry - I hope you know i was kidding. and as for being successful, I have a sweet little 9 to 5'er as a phone jockey for the Target Corporation. I cant even afford to take time off from this shit house to do free creative work, as both my girlfriend and i are revisiting formal education, and are parents are too far away to sponge off of anymore. im 27 years old, and my book is as thin as a crack whore.
any suggestions? (honestly)
  2002-05-16 13:25:18
HankTrotterSend HankTrotter a message :   Check that. I meant Art's comment that begins..."well, the medium one chooses."   2002-05-16 13:22:43
HankTrotterSend HankTrotter a message :   Well, I know today's conversation has kept me from my task...sheetrocking my basement. But I'm glad Art made his most recent comment, because when I praise this poster and others like it Jeff did at the time I am not talking about style. No one on this site can touch Jeff's ability to put type on image. I'm not blowing Jeff when I say this. There are elements of his design that I don't think are as strong. But the relationship of the graphic elements in his designs is rated XXX. All y'all should look at his portfolio and use it as a primer on balance in design.   2002-05-16 13:21:13
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   cracks me up. people always assume i'm a big successful studio making tons o' cash. people used to look at my old rusty pickup and ask me if the lambourgenie (sp?) was parked at home.
it's just me, in my attic. i'm a great procrastinator (i'm avoiding the one lousy job i have) and my gal and my dog are both out of town, so i'm bored as well. i've tried interns, and don't like it, so it's always been me. at times i've shared studios with others (my gal jamie, hank, jeff) but i always have done my work alone. no staff. also, my annual income has only slipped above the official poverty level once or twice in my entire adult life. so, your strange ideas of what i'm about are pretty laughable. most of you are likely far more 'successful' than i. i'm just damn good at what i do (whatever it is).
art
  2002-05-16 13:16:08
kevin jonesSend kevin jones a message :   i mean that the thought of it was funny to me ... yeah.   2002-05-16 13:08:03
kevin jonesSend kevin jones a message :   so like, art, are you in your studio, playing on the internet while everyone else does the work ... im invisioning you hunched over the computer, squinting to read the text (cus your old, ya know), handing out rolls of ductape and razor blades, about about 10 interns in line to use the xerox machine.
sorry, just thought it a funny thought.
  2002-05-16 13:07:13
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   frank -
a technicality. it's not MY computer.
art
  2002-05-16 13:02:43
kevin jonesSend kevin jones a message :   ive been wanting to ask the same question ...   2002-05-16 13:02:14
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   well, the medium one chooses (clip art, cartooning, painting, photography, a stick in the dirt) means far less than what and how things are said. it's about communication, and VOICE. jeff's voice is brilliant and beautiful in these srappy little pieces of junk slapped together. frank's voice comes out uniquely and brazenly no matter how he chooses to express it. same is true for all the best work. the lesser work is the work that masks the voice behind technique or the means to reaching that end. we all get lost behind our mediums, and we all consider it works that aren't as good (i.e. 'fail'). that's when i ask for help. or look for inspiration to get myself out of that hole. sometimes that means listening to those who point out perceived weaknesses. of course, they have to command a little respect from before i listen too closely.
isn't that the point of all of this? if not, why are we bothering?
art
  2002-05-16 13:01:57
kozikSend kozik a message :   Art-since you keep saying you don't own a computer...how are you being able to be on this here site? The thouight of you sitting in some sleazy 'Internet Cafe' kinda freaks me out.   2002-05-16 12:58:58
kozikSend kozik a message :   well...I LOVE the 'classic' punk stuff and have mountaind of it I collected over the years,and while it was sort of 'invented' by Jamie Reid, a lot of the really great stuff was just ...done by no one special, or the band or wjhatever...I did a lot of them and some came out pretty cool and it was a direct result of no money, no technique and Kinko's. I suppose being high on speed and cranking some tunes helped too. In fact, I think that 'over-analyzing' while doing these sort of posters sort kills the energy...I think the energy comes from them being totally amatuerish...and somehow 'pure' impulse. I mean, if the letters come out crooked because your using left-over zipatone letters and magic markers thats one thing, but to sort of sit down and 'plan out' the distressed factor...thats fey.Jeff's new stuff pretty shows he is trying to do what he feels is 'good design' and I think it works. People's personal challenges do change with time. I think that ALL jis work is great, and the fact that he is changing, even if someone does not like it is good for him if it meets some sort of interior criteria. I have pretty much abandoned my 'successful' formula for something that is totally different, and even tho every one else might say I'm over with, suck whatever, the new stuff has me EXCITED and doing a lot of stuff and it makes ME happy...maybe Jeff is doing the same thing?   2002-05-16 12:51:05
philaarts.comSend philaarts.com a message :   ps that was for backdraft not you nolen :-D   2002-05-16 12:50:19
philaarts.comSend philaarts.com a message :   yeah....... forum.
ps. i have never really seen any useful comments you have made, except how deep you are as an accomplished thinking artist. i wasnt gonna poke. but you gave me a shot.
  2002-05-16 12:48:55
HankTrotterSend HankTrotter a message :   If anyone looks at Jeff's old stuff and only sees "fucked up punk shit" then they have one eye tied behind their back. There's way more going on here. Jeff is achieving type/image relationships that I pray will strike me everytime I try to design. But which seldom do come to me. What is design if it is not putting type with image?   2002-05-16 12:48:38
Nolen StralsSend Nolen Strals a message :   ah backdraft do you ever say anything useful?   2002-05-16 12:47:40
Nolen StralsSend Nolen Strals a message :   see rock you're fleshing out more what I was saying...the part I knew I was forgetting "just let the idea happen". There's some sort of idea (maybe not a grand thesis statemet level one) but...an understanding here. It takes a knowledge of what cut and paste can do to make this...it's not totally random and loose...though there is a lot of happenstance in it, it's not totally so. Look at the other gits one with the bandaged head.   2002-05-16 12:45:27
Nolen StralsSend Nolen Strals a message :   see rock you're fleshing out more what I was saying...the part I knew I was forgetting "just let the idea happen". There's some sort of idea (maybe not a grand thesis statemet level one) but...an understanding here. It takes a knowledge of what cut and paste can do to make this...it's not totally random and loose...though there is a lot of happenstance in it, it's not totally so. Look at the other gits one with the bandaged head.   2002-05-16 12:45:21
backdraftSend backdraft a message :   oh yeah i forgot. the whole deep concept behind the poster(then including the easy crappy clip art).   2002-05-16 12:45:04
backdraftSend backdraft a message :   uh oh. going the route of how easy clip art is to crap out.
(i agree)
  2002-05-16 12:44:14
rockologistSend rockologist a message :   but maybe it is that easy, if you just let go of the actual design process, the concept of 'design' and allow the idea to happen?   2002-05-16 12:42:29
Nolen StralsSend Nolen Strals a message :   i have to disagree with kozik that this stuff is easy. I one sense it is, to just cut and paste.... but to make it look good...to give it that special something..to fuck up the letters just right, etc. etc.... I've only seen a few people pull it off (some well known, some anonymous)...it's kind of a studied look after a while, but it also requires an innate (spelling?) sense/the right eye to pull it off spontaneously.
Nice to see some good, fruitful discussions on here again.
  2002-05-16 12:39:03
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   frank -
i wouldn't touch what you just said with a 20 foot pole.
kozik can get away with murder.
chach -
well, if you think it's fun to be rude to people like me, then your going to be pretty lonely in the long run.
art
  2002-05-16 12:35:32
kozikSend kozik a message :   Ok. let me step in the dog doo here....I think the 'new' work is waaaay better than the 'old work' the 'fucked up punk shit' is cool, but it's pretty easy to do. Actually the faster you shit it out the better it looks. Anyone can do it. The 'new' stuff is really nicely put together and fucking great! And, since I know my stuff sucks, I make these comments as a 'consumer' and not a 'designer'.   2002-05-16 12:26:46
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   chach -
i really do wish you could see that i'm not attcking you or jeff. to critique and challenge is not the same thing as to belittle and name-call. please please see the difference here. i like you (and even still like jeff, damn him).
art
  2002-05-16 12:25:55
goochSend gooch a message :   I give.   2002-05-16 12:18:52
goochSend gooch a message :   that's :
"thanks for making this thread more interesting than 'reality tv', guys."
geez. bad typing.
  2002-05-16 12:17:58
goochSend gooch a message :   that's :
"thanks for making this thread more interesting than 'reality tv', guys."
geez. bad typing.
  2002-05-16 12:17:48
goochSend gooch a message :   Okay, I'm out of the loop here. Just read the last three posts. Makes more sense.
I still like the new stuff.
And thanks for making thread more interesting than 'reality tv' guys. I'm hooked.
  2002-05-16 12:16:27
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   gooch -
it's not an 'evisceration', it's a challenge. i'm not trying to kill jeff, i'm trying to push him into taking another step.
art
  2002-05-16 12:16:05
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   jeff -
interesting. i didn't know.
best of luck.
art
  2002-05-16 12:13:58
goochSend gooch a message :   I've just re-read this thread and while it is somewhat painful yet ghoulishly fascinating to see a public evisceration there are some valid points here.
That said, I have to chime in and say that I think Jeff's current stuff is more interesting than this work. I'm not sure I'm following the whole 'free and breezy' idea you're pursuing, Art. While I dig these old posters they don't really deviate from well-trod punk flyers of the late 70s. Sure, the fucked up Saul Bass approach extends back further but somehow the recontextualizing of it interests me more.
That's all. I don't know you guys or where you came from. This is just from what I've seen of his work in books and on this site.
  2002-05-16 12:12:17
Jeff KleinsmithSend Jeff Kleinsmith a message :   Art
Something changed somewhere along the way. Nervous breakdown maybe. All of the lithium I'm on. I don't know... I have a hard time having a truly good time. Only when I'm playing with my daughter am I truly enjoying life. Man oh man. Besides my family my art is my biggest passion but it's a little different now. But I'll tell you, what made me youthful and exuberant and exciting also made me do things and act certain ways that I'm not proud of (you know what I mean). My life was also completely unbalanced and I was totally depressed. It's a trade off. I guess the question is: now that I am fully aware of this stuff can I consciously get it back? Can any of us?
I know EXACTLY what you're saying. I know EXACTLY what you're doing. I know you. I know you're swinging the proverbial 2x4. I know you're trying to get me riled. I appreciate it. Don't think I don't think about what you're saying all of the time. Yes, you taught me stuff, you opened doors, you saved my ass. I appreciate it. Yes, I know you don't like me. I wasn't trying to be defensive because of our lousy relationship, I honestly think I do some good work. My work is consistent, recognizable, original, and hopefully compelling from time to time. I'm proud of where I'm at. I get the ego massaging (just like you). But I'm not willing to walk the thin line between pain and suffering and chaos just so some of it will rub off on my work. Or at least that thin line is a little thicker for me than others. I think you and I are actually saying the same exact thing though. I want the youthfullness, exuberance, blah, blah to be part of whatever style or direction I feel like going in. That's what you see is missing. I generally agree.
Jeff
I know...I realize this isn't therapy.com
  2002-05-16 12:10:01
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   and this will be my last comment on this as well.
i really don't understand how you can say you're not passing judgement on me and then (with all due DISrespect) tell me to pull the cork from my ass. you obviously haven't a clue as to what my entire 'career' has been about. so, fine. it's still your narrow little view on life that you want to cling to, so be it.
as for jeff's work i can see why you defend his current stylistic position because it is so incredible similar in style and execution to your own that you'd can only set his early work's similarity to mine. but to say he's 'evolved' as a designer is really not looking at what really matters in this stuff. and to suggest i haven't evolved as a designer is completely missing the point of what it is i do. so, fine. you like his current work.
i personally like his current work, but finding lacking soul. i also like his old work and find it bristling with soul, but lacking finesse of craftsmanship (on a superficial level. it's actually very difficult to do his early kind of work so well). also, i have the advantage of watching him grow from a terrible design-school portfolio to an exquisite free-form expressionist back to a design-school expressionist. that's backtracking in my book.
aa's work is beautiful. you're among my favorite designers on this site. but you design-school academic regimentation shows a little too hard. in five years, it'll be fun to see what you folks are up to.
art
  2002-05-16 12:08:07
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   chach -
i can see how you feel, but you really don't get what's going on here - and now you want to judge me. ok, fine, it's your life. but keep in mind you really don't know what it is you're passing judgement on.
as for posting, i don't have scan of my work to post. remeber i don't know how to use computers (yet). it would be a huge amount of work to set it all up for your ease of viewing. my work is very widely published. if you want to see it, it's very easy to find. do a google search on "art chantry" (with quotes) and you'll find lotsa stuff, or better yet, go look in a book.
art
ps - i know it may be too personal to do on this sight, but jeff and i go way back and this is the only place we talk. besides, i don't think it's all that personal. if it makes you squiddly, don't read it.
  2002-05-16 11:44:10
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   chach -
well, to an outsider it may look that way. but between jeff and me, we know you couldn't be more wrong. my dialog i'm pitching at jeff is meant to be a stiff challenge to what i know he's capable of. he could be world-class if he can just make that next frightful step. i've been waiting ten years for him to do it, and he seems stuck. so, i brought out my 2x4.
art
ps - jeff, you know what i'm saying.
  2002-05-16 11:25:26
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   jeff -
boy, i shouldn't say this, but...
do you know how many times i saved yer ass at the rocket? look at all the work and people i hooked you up with. i didn't do all of that because i liked you (i've told you what i think), it's because i thought you were an incredible talent. and now i feel like you pissed it away for a little creature comfort and ego-massaging.
pull that cork out of yer ass, boy. let's see what you can do!
art
ps - like i said, sometimes the only thing you can do is swing that ol' 2x4. sorry.
  2002-05-16 11:12:02
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   jeff -
(some how i cut off half of my comment. it's too bad, i don't know if i can re-creatie it.)
...it's not about 'better' designing. that's all nonsense. you brought in everything you needed before you ever did a poster. all that exuberance and wild energetic insight is what i miss - can you still find that in yourself? it's like all that early soul has been sucked right out of you, like you somehow want to make yourself worthy of someting. you were worthy from the outset - just look. and i'm not talking about b&w scruffiness or pics of bush w/ staples or little weird babies or even the wacked type. i'm talking about the person that came through all that stuff. that's what i miss about your work. why are you hiding behind refinement and style?
art
ps - really, what have you got to lose? just let rip - like the good old days. i guarantee you'll be happier.
  2002-05-16 10:51:46
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   hey, i don't blame you for getting just a tad defensive of your current work - especially considering the lousy state of our current relationship. but my point that i'm trying to make is that i wish you could re-discover that wild-eyed energy and boyish soul your work used to have. it's so much more than just 'refining your work   2002-05-16 10:43:41
HankTrotterSend HankTrotter a message :   Oh, I'm feeling my oats today. :cry:   2002-05-16 10:04:33
Nolen StralsSend Nolen Strals a message :   Hey Jeff, I liked your last comments, Chantry's too, and actually when your FedEx arrived here yesterday I was commenting to my co-workers (who were drooling over the prints along with me), that even though your work covers so much ground, there's a feel to it that's distinctly yours...just some quality to it that is like a hidden signature no matter what "style" it's in.   2002-05-16 10:03:55
kevin jonesSend kevin jones a message :   Trotter, are you making fun of me? :evil:   2002-05-16 09:49:16
HankTrotterSend HankTrotter a message :   Jeff, I think your current stuff looks a lot like a striped bass. :-o   2002-05-16 09:44:59
kevin jonesSend kevin jones a message :   jeff, i think your current stuff looks a lot like saul bass, that is not a bad thing, just an observation.   2002-05-16 09:16:54
Jeff KleinsmithSend Jeff Kleinsmith a message :   Hey Art, I appreciate the compliment and the wisdom from which it comes. Like I said, these were more fun and less self-conscious but I did hundreds and hundreds of these things and it was time to move on. I still LOVE them and even still, every day I bring aspects of them to my current work. I wouldn't say I'm as much a stylist (I've experimented with styles but they've always looked like I did them) as I would say that I've refined what I did back then. How many times could I put safety pins through George Bush's eye or fuck up old baby photos? If I put up the hundreds of these I've done you'd see how much experimentation with type and image I've done. I bring all of that to what I do now. While I agree that at times there's more energy and fun in these, in other ways I'm actually having more fun today because there's a much larger world of design out there that I'm interested in. I don't think my current stuff looks like anybody else's. I think it looks like mine.   2002-05-16 09:13:01
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   jeff -
after sleeping on it, i think i've come up with a succint way of saying was i was trying to tell you: back then you had a voice. now all you have is a style.
and i guess anybody can do a style, but your voice back then was really beginning to say something thet was uniquely yours. somehow you copped to becomming a mere stylist. that's so sad to me.
art
  2002-05-16 06:17:52
Stainboy ReinelSend Stainboy Reinel a message :   I love this, Jeff! I feel the same way you stated below - like I labor over this shit too much, sometimes. The good 'ol paste up/Xerox punk flyer stands out like a bloody head on a stick these days. Fuck it. I'm chuckin' it all.....gimme' scissors n' Glue Stic or gimme' death!!   2002-05-16 01:09:21
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   jeff - uh.... i didn't intend to throw you into spasms of self-loathing. i was just pointing out how great and immediate and visceral these old fellas were. i still go back and look at them to enjoy their sheer energy. i think your current postering just plain tries too hard (to be what? pretty? designerly? artistic? what?) doesn't mean it's bad. i just like these better personally, that's all.
i often think what would they have looked like if you had done them the same way, but with color.
art
  2002-05-15 20:31:01
Jeff KleinsmithSend Jeff Kleinsmith a message :   Guilty on both accounts. Art knows me better than I know myself, always has. He's right, I am waaaaay too self-conscious now. I used to laugh and experiment and try things and fuck shit up. Now, sometimes I agonize over these posters too much. I didn't used to care about what people thought of these things. I was doing them for myself. I was blissfully unaware. I had nothing to lose. Now, for whatever reason, I feel like I have something to lose. Also, something happened when I went from little xeroxes to big colorful screenprints. I made a concerted effort to make something "beautiful" instead of shocking. Something well designed instead of garish. I made an effort to go in my own (different) direction. These aren't my favorite posters in terms of design or technical ability, but they were definitely some of the most fun to do. (I like my Tito poster better but I literally broke into tears making it. I had a bi-polar flareup). There is stuff I've done in the last few years that I think is better designed and more interesting (to me) but he's right about the self-conscious note. Too right.
  2002-05-15 19:56:55
art chantrySend art chantry a message :   el negro - that's 'cuz jeff did this stuff when he was still my assistant at the rocket. i always loved these things - he'd blast them out in a half-hour and often do several a day. great stuff. ha, you should have seen his portfolio when he started. it's obvious that he loved doing this stuff. i think his current stuff has become too self-conscious. he ought to go back to blasting out the work he loved...   2002-05-15 17:45:13
El Negro Magnifico!Send El Negro Magnifico! a message :   Cool! Kleinsmith's early stuff...I'm not being an ass when I say Chantry's influence is all over this. George never looked better.   2002-05-15 17:17:43
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