Why does it matter if the guy is a jerk or not? He's a talented illustrator, artist, so who gives a fuck if he's a pleasure to be around. Personally I've never met the man so I can't say, but his art is terrific. Some of the people here who have said that he keeps turning out the same stuff, turn out the same stuff and are pretty one dimensional themselves.
this poster rocks ,it goes with the song subject,girls who don't dig them,something else yes, but not Milo and Bill, of the band.Put I never saw anything like this back in the day, the 80's.Of course this is a rent party maybe things changed .
I love this three year old dialogue,... like looking at everyone's yearbook pictures! Awwww! Rambunctious little Chloe, a mellowed out Mike Fisher, Kozik less curmudgeony, Jermaine still playing with lower life forms before procreating,....!
Dude I was only comparing sales/interest in my own little world. For my personal Tastes and my customers desires Coop rules. And after I re-read what you wrote it really was not ripping on him that much. I should not have made the comment I did about you. Your post just happend to be the last I read after about 20 of seripop's.
The more I tought about Spicolli's last statement the more it makes me laugh. The really funny thing about him comparing my sales to Coop's is the fact that he bought (or got a promo copy for free)one of those Manson posters unsigned and is probably trying to sell for $bread$ and it's not worth shit and people aren't buying it. The only thing that makes any of those worth anything are signed by me or Manson because there were 10,000 of them printed for the tour! My A/P run is s/n in an edtion of 50 and are almost gone. Interscope already paid me 3k for the design, so I could give a fuck if he ever sells it. My limited silkscreen runs sell out regularly. Ricky Nelson, signing off. :-) :-p
sorry. last ramble.
good points frank.
fuck mostly everyone here is an artist. do what makes you happy when you do a fucking poster. everyone approaches a theme differently. there is no RIGHT or WRONG. in the end its in YOUR portfolio. its owned by YOU.
k done. monday morning quarterback to me is just pissing in the fucking wind.
and vibranium...look man..like it or not the majority of 'rock poster' art is basically vibrant overblown and vaguely stupid, just like the music. its about fun. I love 'design', but ya you are right most people here are like self-starters from whats basically a fucking circus culture socially. I f you crave a lot of pure fine aesthetics you need to go like do
theatre posters or something. Or like high cost luxury product design. The roots of this gig poster culture come from the underbelly man, cause thats where the fire is. Maybe you should devote yourself to like textile design or product design. Thats like a 'mature' discipline.
and as far as this poster..the robot is like OK, the lettering like just stuck in and the 'punk' girl makes sense for the descendents(sort of) all tho descendents chicks didnt ever look like that....but see...if I was Coop...with his cartoon skills I would have done a full-on 'coffee' theme( is still have my Descendents mug) with maybe the robot in some wacky coffee joint or something. all jittery...descendents where like jittery too me.
but what the fuck do i know? my only descendents poster is just a weird cut-out stencil of a toilet plunger.
The way I see it for some bands a whacking big old pair of day glo titties on a devil girls riding a flaming skull is perfect.
For another band a lone hubcap
deftly and suggestively placed on a field of grey is perfect.
I personally enjoy both approaches a great deal and consider both plus a bunch more not so neatly classified as equally valid, both as 'art' and as 'advertising'.
In fact, even tho I am greatly hated/loved for my 'garish' cartoon work, one of my FAVORITE designs I ever did was nothing more than a weird picture of a lamp for a Melvins record.
you guys are like fighting about nothing.
spicolli wrote "Not to pick on you dude but as a poster dealer I have had oh about a thousand request for Coop items and I am still waiting to sell the first Hampton Manson poster of the stack I got from my Universal guy.
that is waayyyy out of line. and its just plain rude. justin is a great guy, and a great artist. just cause some snot nosed people might not BUY a poster, doesnt mean its BAD. and vice versa.
there is room for everyone.
everyone does things differently. and people pick roads that work. this grouping is just plain ignorant.
a person doesnt like an aritist fine-dont work with them,but dont lump that all artists are bad. a person doesnt like a gallery/dealer fine-dont work with them, but dont lump all together.
justin and many other artists i have worked with are upstanding, nice, people.
they CHOOSE to sell to gallery/dealers at THEIR price that warrants a profit that they like, by their own CHOICE. the artists i deal with are smart. they arent some stupid kid who doesnt work out a plan for promo and distribution.
also there are artists i have CHOSEN NOT TO WORK WITH and will NEVER CARRY their works cause they are pricks to friends of mine that ART ARTISTS.. they ask, and i politely say that im currently "full"..
there is no harm, its a working relationship that people choose. they work with who works with them. fuck man, live and let live. do whatchuwant.
man. i didnt wanna comment on this dealer shit. there are huge asshole dealers and gallery owners out there. and there are nice dealers and gallery owners.
to pass judgement on an artist or a gallery because of others is just wrong. i can think of about 10 bad galleries and 10 artists that have a horrible reputation. ie, artists who have ripped off a gallery, and a gallery that ripped off an artist.
everyone is going to approach art, posters, relationships differently. some will be more vocal and sorta say "this is how it should be".. do what fucking works for YOU.
sorry. i got riled when justin got slammed. not cool.
As far as catching the "vibe" of the band, who fucking cares as long as it looks cool. I've seen posters with actual ideas that fit a band to a T, but it looked shit and probably wouldn't have caught my eye. Coop's stuff looks cool. Does this poster capture the essence of the Descendents? Not really. If you are a Descendents freak would you want this Milo-less poster? Probably (I know two who do). Kick ass drawings or images catch the eye of the uninitiated and make the band or event seem interesting. In that respect 90% of Coop's work fufills its job.
It's nice to have an idea or a concept behind your ad, but most of the time people won't be exposed to it long enough to think about it or apply to the event you are trying to advertise. The most you can hope for from a passer by is "Wow, what's this all about?" or at least "hnh, Cool."
Then again, I'm more into heavier or humorous shit so Coop's stuff is more appealling to me. I'm frankly bewildered when people on this site proclaim a poster of let's say a lone hubcap on a field of grey the greatest- blow-your-shit-outta-tha-water poster since Uncle fuckin Sam.
Also, if we are going to talk one trick ponies, let's rip that talentless hack Mark Ryden a new one. He's not a poster artist but, Sheeeeesh,
Meat, bunnies, Ricci, and Lincoln, we get it already. Paint something new already. I had a couple of his originals in my garage, but later when I saw him doing the same ass shit, I traded'em in for some Warhol soup can prints. I mean come on, even Picasso painted something besides bulls and chicks every once in a while.
Read this whole thread, and can only deduce from the past and present demonstrations of Chloe's frequent bile towards Coop that a fractured romance must lie somewhere in the past. Otherwise why give such a consistant shit?
"I read what I wrote and felt a little bad for using Hampton as a example. But to me reading these comments was like listening to Fabian and Ricky Nelson rip on Elvis and Buddy Holly."
I'm fabian and Coop's Elvis?
:lol: You're funny dude :-x
seripop: I am not talking about you personally but reading this thread was like listing to that guy from Creed talk. Ya know... how he has convinced himself that Pearl Jam are the ones that ripped him off.
Well enough. And yes I do realize Coop has a shtick but I just can't believe the beating that guy gets around here sometimes. And I am not talking about attacks on his personality but his art. Sorry for attacking you and I do like your Boss hog poster.
well i DON'T think he's the best of the best nor do i think all posters artists are aiming at the same audience,
just as there is diffent music, there is diffent art.
but whateve i already said my part on this.
if you think he's great fine.
i think i'm better.
Spicolli* don't get your fuckin' knickers in a knot dude. It's not a personal attack on you, Coop or anyone. If you can't admit that Coop and alot of other folks have schticks then your deluding your self, buddy. Schtick sell posters, period.
Not that he's not good, he is. Quit trippin. As to my Manson poster, I could care less if it ever moves for you. I send out orders weekly for galleries and fans and my stuff does move. I'm not sweatin' it, but thanks for your eloquent insight.
seripop I believe there is a big difference. Being that the Backstreet Boys have absolutely no relation to the Melvins. They are not trying to appeal to the same audience. There are definitely exceptions here Kozik, Chantry and many others. But there are lot's of people here that would not be doing what they do if not for Coop and are now slaging him. Whatever flaws the guy has as a human being you can't deny that he is one of the best of the best and gives the people what they want. I read what I wrote and felt a little bad for using Hampton as a example. But to me reading these comments was like listening to Fabian and Ricky Nelson rip on Elvis and Buddy Holly.
Hampton wrote: "His stuff is pretty one trick pony"
You must be joking? I don't want to start another big war here but someone has to be the voice of reason. I don't know Coop have never met the Man and will take everyone's word for it that he is the biggest asshole since Adolph Hitler. But puuuuleeese!!!!! I look at some of the peoples portfolio's that are talking shit and taking pot shots about "Shticks" and "One Trick Pony" stuff and can't imagine where they get the gahonies to spew this crap. Not to pick on you dude but as a poster dealer I have had oh about a thousand request for Coop items and I am still waiting to sell the first Hampton Manson poster of the stack I got from my Universal guy.
Dude, go get your self a Winsor Newton seies7 #3 brush for about $30 and Rapidraw india ink, waterproof fast drying for film(it's the darkest and most dense there is) and pracitce. I might do a seminar at Flatstock on it. I've already told Jermaine I'd show him. I used to be hella frustrated by inking with a brush until I worked as an assistant for a Marvel/ Dc inker for a while. He showed me the right equiptment and some quick pointers and I was off and running. I will show this to anyone interested for free in SF. YOU TO CAN INK AS WELL AS COOP, CALL NOW!... or something. heh.
I ink with a brush. It's hard to do well. It's really hard to do as good as Coop does it. I don't talk out of my ass. If I'm impressed it's because I've tried to do it. I work like a dog to improve all aspects of my art. I appreciate what I can't do easily.
Coop's brush work IS good but it's not that hard of a thing to master. It just takes a good $sable brush$, high quality ink and a steady hand. Practice makes perfect.
His stuff is pretty one trick pony, but he's good at what he does and he's got a schtick. It seems like the people that have one do really well for thier recognizablity. It gets old fast, but it sticks in your head like glue. I'm still looking for a schtick even as much as I hate the idea of having one.
well this is certainly being beaten into the ground.
I like Coop's stuff, he and Mr.Kozik (along with Pushead) are big influences on me. I discovered this whole geeky wonderful world of poster art through them. I do think that Coop can be viewed as a one trick pony, but to my eyes that trick is so damn good i don't mind looking at it over and over. His personality is his own, his work doesn't come with a tape of his ravings or anything so what the hell do I care about his intrests. I like looking at his drawings.
As far as Art's point, I do agree that once you work with a brush your line quality improves drastically. Coop and Bill Watterson opened up that tidbit to me, but I do have to say that it takes some work to master it and in that regards Coop has definitly gotten his brushes under control.
Rich! so true. Timmy and Weezie ea that stuff, too...when we clean up the cage, we leave that ALONE. The funny thing is, they ONLY do it in the cage...like, its cool that they dont do it around the house. The little cocoa puffs are like DRY, so they are cool to clean up.
bunnies ,being classier than i, usually endulge at night so people never notice. too much protein in their diet makes them produce too much cecal. my bunny needed a diaper when i first got him but. then i scrapped the alfalfa, decreased his pellets and switched to timothy hay. now he's the happiest little fucker.
heh. I have an amazing Manx cat. Walter. he's 11. when he dies that's it no more pets. When he dies I am going to make him a little cat-sized easy chair and a tweed suit with a vest and a little pipe and slippers. Im gonna get him stuffed so hes sitting in the chair smoking his pipe and keep him by the fireplace.
I love that little fucker.
here's a fun fact. in addition to their cocoa puff poop, bunnies also poop tiny, wet, pungent smelling grape-like clusters called cecal. which they eat from their anus for it's nutritional value. great on toast.
I like discussions like this that cause you to really think about what you are trying to say rather than the "I'm right and now I'm going to leave!" stuff. In my opinion I would call the Sistine Chapel a "painted illustration".
Fuck..I totally missed this thread...got stuck in Chinatown.
Anyway, if we were to judge the merit of a poster or the artist's technique on their personality...then, by those standards, there wouldn't be many good posters on this site.
I've met Coop, had dinner at his place, and got stuck in a hug/ choke hold from Ruth. (Calm down El Negro.. :} )
Anyway, after meeting him...I'd see he and Ruth somewhere, and I'd have to re introduce myself to them everytime. That shit got old. In the end, I didn't take too much offense to it...because I never attached the personality to the posters.
I wouldn't let most artist's personality ruin my appreciation for the posters they've done.
I'd agree with you there on the semantics that anything that tells a story must be an illustration but like you say its a fine line. i mean, the roof of the cistine chapel tells a story but is it an illustration? a painting? a fresco? or all of them? who cares it kicks ass!
That's a good question Harry....I always felt in school that there was a very fine line between fine art and illustration. I always think of the words "painting" and "drawing" as a reference to the technique, tho and not whether it's an illustration or not. I guess going along with the definition as I understood it, as long as the painting is trying to tell a story it would be classified as an illustration regardless of medium. If it doesn't tell a story, I don't really know how you would classify it. I guess just refer to it as a painted image.
well..ive watched coop work...his pencilling skills are astounding..he can literally just sit down and draw a cartoon of anything you name from any angle..it's crazy. His inked stuff has almost no white out on it.
he has great handcontrol.
His work is not that labored..I've seen to a 4 foot long line with one-shot that is like fantastic....
but he's a bit of a toad. that's all.
like, he's NO FUN to hang out with AT ALL.
that kinda counts for alot in my book.
as to his work..it's like so manipulated it's almost invisible somehow.
Cool. Like I said I'm not a huge fan of his work but I appreciate his skills. I'm sure even tho he is allegedly a dick to people he has worked really hard as far as his drawing goes. I just think that personal issues are jaundicing views of his ability.
if i said the sky was blue, you folks would argue with me until you turn the same color.
go back to my statement and read it. look and learn. buy a brush and your work will start to look like coop. it's technology, not magic.
and jermaine, the only thing around here that it think is simple is you.
i'm outa here again. it's always such a mistake to talk to you folk.
Ive seen Coop's originals myself. Ive also seen his lith cuts. We shared the same printer for a short time. Say what you want about his attitude...but the mans work ain't 'simple'. His lith cuts are amazing. He cuts things like color hues and shadows into the image that are pretty slick.
I think even Frank has said how, not talking about his attitude, the dude is talented. Content? Thats another matter. But his technique, from what Ive seen, is impressive.
my point is to look and learn and not to bother with the hero-worship. what coop does is good, but not THAT good that you can't do it, especially if you studdy what's in front of you eyes. give it a shot.
and goad, you know nothing at all about how i work, so your comparison didn't really work very well. but i still understood what you were tryting to say. it's ok.
Who fuckin' cares? I doubt when you cut stuff out, you cut everything perfectly on the edges. It's all about the final product. I took a production class in school before everything went to computers and all that stuff looks like ass before it gets printed.
oh, and one last thing about the 'wonders' of coop's work. for all of you drawers out there that are so blown away by his line work, put down yer sharpies and pick up a decent brush or two. use lotsa white out and, by god, i'll betcha you can look a lot like coop, too.
try it an see if i'm wrong.
Breaks it down? I totally disagree with his definition of illustration. From what I understand, illustration is drawing that tells a story, hence saying that you want to "illustrate" a point. Cartooning is a form of illustration just as doing collage or even sculpture could be an illustration as long as there is story behind it.
i've been trying to stay away from this site, but i wanna weigh in on coop. first, i think he's a great, if laboured, cartoonist (an illustrator only distantly, because an illustrator deals with subject matter that pertains to the subject at hand. and 'outline' drawing like this is cartooning, while illustration implies sculpted form...). however, his personal drawing style is SO derivative of robert williams that he virtually cloning him. scary. his subject matter is a personal fetish, with both strengthens his imagery, but limits his territory to the point of becomming self-parody, however unintentional. i see his work as a terrible waste of potential.
as a person, since i first worked with him back in around '91 or so, he's been a dick to me, treated me like less than human, and done everything to screw me whenever he got the chance. honesty is not is strong suit, but he IS consistant. at least you can count on that. as an art director, i could always count on him to behave a certain way (always badly) and i could plan around it because of his consistantly bad behaviour.
so, guys like coop make this whole poster scene look punk (in the the bad sense of the word). nobody will ever take any of this seriously when the pacesetters act that badly. look at poor robert williams - he's the best in his field, but always tagged with the 'nazi-moron' lowbrow reputation of dutch and roth. he should be in the big museums as one of the premier american artists of the last quarter century, but can't get past the 'reputation' of the others 'outlaw' artists that set the pace. same's going on here.
coop needs to be ignored away somehow.
behold my hippie comments...
1. each of us has our own reasons/style/methodology for doing posters and flyers. why shouldn't Coop's be as valid as ours?
2. also, it's largely through Coop and Kozik's work that people find out/notice poster art - and all of us. they're gateway drugs.
3. (non-hippie) i'm personally tired of Coop's work, largely because of its omnipresence. his robot stuff still gets me goin' though.
now say it with me... "oooooOOOOOOMMMMMMmmmmmm...."
From my perspective as a fan and not a artist. I think Coops stuff is great! I can't imagine there is another artist out there that could lure me into buying a techno album for the cover [Lords Of Acid]. And I think quite often people here get the art equivalent to "Yngwie Malmsteen Syndrome" a guy that plays guitar that only other guitarist would appreciate. There are more then a few artist here that everyone seems to go gonzo over and I think to myself "I would walk by that poster 1,000 times and never bother to read it'. But Coops stuff always catches my eye.
Geesh. If he's an asshole to people and has a Napoleon complex, then as a person he sux. But as far as subject matter and not being innovative, shouldn't that be up to him? I mean was he really put on this earth to draw what you want to see? He really doesn't owe anybody anything as far as what he draws and I'm sure people approach him and tell him to draw the same things over and over and don't try and challenge him at all to do anything else. Eventually, I'm sure it will catch up with him and he'll feel the need to have some kind of big breakthrough. I'm definately in need of one of those, but it isn't just a matter of snapping your fingers and then BAM! you have a great idea - you either have to work at it or it just happens.
He happened to do an illustration for the Stained Skin, charged a whole buttload of money for it as well, and it was the typical devil woman shit - but that's what Durb asked for, and it has sold a lot of t-shirts for us.
I'm not a huge fan of his work, have seen some things and liked them, have seen others and thought "God, can't he draw something else?", but understand at the same time that it's not his job to entertain me, only himself and give his clients what they want.
"You should just fuckin' do whatever you like to do."
He personally detests music and the scene. He makes it a point NOT to listen to bands. He truly believes he is a GREAT ARTIST and that the bands and the world should be greatful to him. About the only thing I ever saw him get
'personally' invested in was the Church Of Satan stuff. He adores fat women for like real, so to him the illustrations are erotic in nature. And yes, the posters where done strictly as a business and a showcase for his skills.
He spends most of his time building and painting high detail resin model kits and most of the stuff with robots etc are drawings based on those.
!. my work sucks.
Coop: I have known Chris from the very beginning of his career. Hell I got him started doing posters.
He is an AMAZING ulliustrator.
He, however has no 'soul'.
He has told me MANY times he only did the posters as a way to make money. Most of his clients grew to be unhappy with his approach professionally.
So i belive he's like squandered his talent. I can also rattle of the list of people whose themes he capitilized on, but I won't.
He's like not a popular guy in artist' circles.
He does have a rabid fanbase and that is a good thing for him.
Technically brilliant, but little soul.
Coop sucks big donkey dicks.. Sure the bitch can draw.. BIG DEAL.. He's drawn some shit I wish I would have drawn.. Like one poster where he drew the entire male cast from the Andy Griffith show.. They were all dressed in womens clothes and holding vibrators and dildos.. It was the funniest thing I ever saw.BUT did it fit the band? NO.. Does this DECENDENTS poster visually "fit the bands vibe" Not for me.. Not in the slightest.. Coop is probably the most "overrated" of all the poster artist.. Hess is a close second.. Sometimes they tie for first place.. But Coop and Derek have done the "same shit" over and over and over again..
chloe, i wan't speaking to you directly i was speaking in general. although i don't agree that this is the same ole coop stuff. there isn't a devil girl in sight. probably why i like it. he's got a style distinctly his own. even if it's whatever's cool at the moment. i also did his hand lettering and am partial to robots. are his posters successful? that debateable. i just know i wish i could draw like him.
dude i'd tell him to his face his stuff bores me.i really don't care.
i DON'T respect him cuz he just cranks out the same shit over and over and has been doing it for years.
i don't respect ANY artist who can't evolve.
hess bores me too
and i never slagged kozik.
although i do tell him when i don't like his stuff.
when something is shitty, i'll say it .
i don't care if they are famous or if they are nobodies.
fame doesn't mean you are good.
look at the bands in the top 40.
are they good?
yeah, yeah, it's cool to slag coop just like it was hess and kozik until they showed up. i have this poster and i love it. i tend to like work that's nothing like my own. coop's got mad skills and you gotta respect that.
i'm talking in general, not just illustrators.
i often love the work of illustrators but i think many of them get trapped in doing the same thing all the time.. i guess the same could be said for certain designers buit in my book they don't rate high enuff for consideration.
i find it REALLY frustrating, as someone who doesn't posses drawing skills, to see someone with alot of talent but few ideas.
it's a real waste.
in my humble opinion the best poster illustrator is cerio.
his shit is so diffrent and fresh from everything else.
all his stuff has that cerio look but he's mad creative with subject matter. but that's all my blah blah blah just to say i find coop really dull.
the first time i saw his work i was like 'cool!'
agfter that it was 'oh haven't i sewen this b4?"
hell ya jer! yer shit is hella witty! polus you crank out diffrent kinds of stuff all the time AND u have a sense of humour about yr work wich I LOVE.
dude, yr strokes poster is one of my all time faves.
yannick and i look at that shit and snicker for HOURS on end.
ans i really wouldn't agree at all that he is more talented than most here.
i think of of at LEAST 30 artists off the top of head that are doing WAY more interesting, inovative and chalenging work.
yeah maybe he's more FAMOUS than many here but i sure wouldn't say talented.
oi agree the guy can draw but he's like hess, just keeps cranking out the same boring shit over and over again.
guess that's what u gotta do when yr panderin' to the lowest common denominator.,
this is the 4th Coop to pop up on the Randomizer this morning (like 4th of 10)...
anyway, hated it as a poster (totally generic) but love it as a sticker on the back of my old van (may she rest in peace).
you can never go wrong with giant robots.